Posts by cognizant dissident

28

WT filters and why people don't see what's right in front of them

by Lady Lee in

many of us find it hard to understand why we didn't see/read/understand what was right in front of us all along.

we get frustrated with those who are still in who can't see what we have discovered.. i think i just found a similar reaction.. i've been playing an on-line game called luxor.

i've been playing this for months now.

cognizant dissident

One more thing on that, (not trying to be sexist) but I think maybe males are more likely to doubt and get sick of it, because religion is an emotional device women are more captive to this than men... but I am seeing a lot of women on here though! :) I still think this, even in this "women indepence" era. :)

I too see this phenomenon but I don't believe that it is because women are inherently more captive to the emotional devices of religions. I do believe that the majority of women have been trained since babyhood to subject their own thoughts and feelings to those of others, parents, family, friends, lovers, spouses, to a greater extent than men have and this carries through every aspect of thier life, work, social, religious, etc. Women have been trained to a greater degree than men in not trusting their own instincts but to look to the external group for validation. The truth of this has been demonstrated time and again in study after study.

We can see examples of women who have broken free of this kind of conditioning and have raised their daughters to be independent thinkers with a voice. They have shown themselves to creative, independent and capable of the same type of scientific/logical thinking as any man. Sadly, though, women raised in this way are still very few in number compared to the ones who are not. Think of Judaic, Christian and Muslim fundamentalism and the messages given to women about their role. This affects the majority of women in the world today. The JW view of women is a strange mix of the 1950's pop culture meets Victorianism. Women's lib never quite made it to the Kingdom Hall did it?

Cog

28

WT filters and why people don't see what's right in front of them

by Lady Lee in

many of us find it hard to understand why we didn't see/read/understand what was right in front of us all along.

we get frustrated with those who are still in who can't see what we have discovered.. i think i just found a similar reaction.. i've been playing an on-line game called luxor.

i've been playing this for months now.

cognizant dissident

I just met Belbab (a JWD poster) and his wife on Friday! My first mini-apostafest and they were such warm and hospitable people. They made me the most delicious lunch and we chatted all afternoon. They know Gary Botting, he lives quite close to them and they just gave me a copy of that book! I haven't read it yet, I am currently reading the complete novels of George Orwell. 1984 is last, I am just about to start it. Then I will read Gary's comparison. I'll post any interesting points I find. By the way, anyone who has not read Orwell yet, he is just an excellent writer. Even without the JW comparisons, I would highly recommend him. One of the greats!

Cog

28

WT filters and why people don't see what's right in front of them

by Lady Lee in

many of us find it hard to understand why we didn't see/read/understand what was right in front of us all along.

we get frustrated with those who are still in who can't see what we have discovered.. i think i just found a similar reaction.. i've been playing an on-line game called luxor.

i've been playing this for months now.

cognizant dissident

I have spent a little time meditating, both in silence, and using a chant (mantra). I don't think using a mantra or chanting is necessarily a harmful thing, at least I have found it to be a positive and beneficial experience especially if used with awareness. (Awareness of the purpose)

I think the important thing is "what is the message?" one is repeating to oneself over and over again. Is it it positive/beneficial? Is it a harmful, message? JW's do repeat messages over and over again in their literature and in their meetings. Many of those messages are psychologically preparing the followers for unquestioning obedience and other "sheeplike" qualities. It's not even subliminal, it is quite overt.

Any cult/religion/political ideology (they are really the same thing) that encourages one to give over one's thinking abilities to others is dangerous whether they use chants or repeated slogans etc. As any of us who have been indoctrinated in this way since childhood can attest to, undoing this brain programming is no easy feat. Even those not intentionally raised by a high control group have been indoctrinated with other messages on a repeated basis. How many of us can still sing those advertising jingles for our favorite toy, candy, cereal, soda pop, that we heard repeatedly as children even if they have been off the air and off the market for decades?

The reason this type of programming is so pervasive throughout all aspects of society, politics, the military, religion, education, advertising, sports, business, etc is because it works! That is how our brain works and learns, by learning and recognizing patterns and ascribing meaning to them. Awareness of that process and using it to our benefit can be a good thing also. People can use repeated positive affirmations to quit smoking, lose weight, visualize success at meeting a challenge.

As mentioned earlier, I have chanted a positive, affirming mantra while meditating in order to re-program my brain and block out all those negative harmful messages of self-hatred, criticism, and judgement that I absorbed from my parents and JW's. Sometimes, with silence alone, I have not been able to do this, the past programming/conditioning is so strong. The goal of this has not been "mind control" but awareness of how the mind has been conditioned for years and attempting to free itself from this kind of control and understand what is "real" and what is "beneficial" to ourselves and to others. Yes, there is a trap to avoid, of substituting one type of mind control for another, just changing the record so to speak. Awareness of the process, the message, and the intent of the message, is the best way to avoid this trap, I believe.

Cog

94

I need a girlfriend

by Junction-Guy in

jw
friends

after this past trip to ohio, i have become painfully more aware of how alone i am.

i miss having someone to share my life with.. .

im almost to the point of dating again, yet i have so many obstacles to overcome.. .

cognizant dissident

Along the lines of what little drummer boy said, the way you describe yourself is definitely not gay. I am a woman and I can tell you that women check other women out all the time and rate their attractiveness. It does not mean they are gay and want to have sex with them! Many men and women fantasize about having threesomes involving a third person of the opposite and the SAME gender. I don't think even that makes you gay or bi-sexual. Fantasy is just fantasy. Thoughts are just thoughts. They come and go and EVERYBODY has them. Perhaps the reason you interpret this type of thought as GAY is because you grew up in such a conservative, christian, homophobic environment where even to say you thought another man was nice looking was to be immediately labeled as GAY. Labelling and judging every thought is a very guilt-inducing Judeo-Christian mind trip! Perhaps you need to widen out in your associations and not confine yourself to such a narrow-minded group as they seem to be influencing your thinking about gayness to the point of confusing you about your own sexuality.

An interesting difference between men and women is the openness with which women are allowed to pursue female affection in their friendships. Women openly hug and kiss their girlfriends, can hold hands in public, cry on each other shoulders, tell their deepest fears and secrets to their girlfriends for support etc without fear of being labeled gay. But for men in our society to openly admit that they need this type of friendship and support from other men is to risk being labelled GAY! They have to get their fix of male bonding only through very narrow, macho approved ways, such as physical contact sports. Ever notice how much ass patting and grabbing goes on in professional sports?

Have you considered NOT labeling yourself anymore in any way as "gay", "almost gay", or possibly "bi-sexual"? Since you have not had a gay relationship and don't want one, what purpose does it serve to label yourself in such a way except to very severely limit your choices with the opposite sex? It will also limit your friendships with other men (which you say you need more of). Do you think it is possible that you put such unreasonable "criteria" on any potential women you may date, that you practically GUARANTEE rejection? Is it possible you actually are afraid of another intimate relationship with a woman, perhaps thinking it can never measure up to the one you had with Amanda, or you are afraid it will go bad and you will be HURT once again? Telling just about any woman you are possibly a little bit almost gay will probably push her away and I think on some level you KNOW that!

Have you considered just developing some relaxing friendships with men and women you find attractive and would like to hang out with, without bringing sexuality (or talking or worrying about it) into the equation at all for the time being?

Cog (I'm not trying to psychoanaylize you Junction Guy, I just calls em like I see em)

32

Remember we dress modestly when we get together!!!!

by tremoka in

i've been inactive for a few years.

missed the past 2 memorials.

i've kinda faded out, haven't had much contact with anyone!

cognizant dissident

we had a brother giving a talk about staying away from temptation. he even said, that the sears catalog can induce tempting thoughts. he actually said the pictures in these ads should be avoided by the brothers. sorry dude, if a sears underwear model gets you going, you are way to sexually repressed. LOL! I know that brother! His wife and I were friends and she told me he was obsessed with an underwear model from the Sears catalogue! She was very pretty but he kept harping at her to lose weight to look more like this model. She eventually ended up with an eating disorder and divorced him for abuse. Oh, by the way, he was also a pioneer and an elder! (Hopefully there is not more than one of them!) Cog

14

Pride and Shame- An Interesting Perspective

by nvrgnbk in

jw
friends

pride and shame: seeing that your behavior arises on its own - out of your particular biologically given traits and your particular career through life, not from a non-material controlling self - might pry you loose from excessive pride and shame.

your successes resulted from personal characteristics given to you in their entirety by nature and nurture, combined with circumstances in which you could express your talents.

likewise, your failures arose not from some weakness of will that could have been otherwise, but out of conditions which can be understood as the natural unfolding of physical and psychological processes.

cognizant dissident

I also agree with this perspective. We are not all born with the same natural aptitudes nor are we afforded the same opportunities in life. We make choices to develop what aptitudes or opportunities we have, or we do not. Pride is merely "ego" and shame is just the opposite side of that same coin. We make mistakes in judgement due to inexperience, and we either learn from them and persevere or we do not.

It is a very freeing perspective. It is interesting to note that not all cultures carry the concepts of sin, guilt, shame, forgiveness, etc. It is a very distinct product of the Judeo-Christian perspective. When we free ourselves of these artificial constructs imposed upon us by our childhood conditioning, then we are truly free to pursue our natural aptitudes and opportunities as they arise without being hampered by a fear of failure or shame due to a false sense of pride. We can simply ask, in regards to all we choose to do, "is this action beneficial to myself, or to others/community" and allow that to be our moral guide.

Cog

94

I need a girlfriend

by Junction-Guy in

jw
friends

after this past trip to ohio, i have become painfully more aware of how alone i am.

i miss having someone to share my life with.. .

im almost to the point of dating again, yet i have so many obstacles to overcome.. .

cognizant dissident

Lola and Bryan, no Im not gay, and I dont desire to have a boyfriend, a male partner, gay lover, or anything of that nature. I could never date a man as it wouldnt feel natural. Guy friends are always cool to have, but a boyfriend just inst for me.

If that is true, Dave, then why do you describe yourself as "almost gay"? Because that doesn't sound at all gay. If you mean that you do have feelings of sexual attraction to men but have no desire to pursue them or a sexual relationship with men, for whatever reason, then you are still "gay". You are just a "celibate gay". If you also have sexual feelings and attractions to women then perhaps you are bi-sexual. In which case you probably would need to find either a bisexual woman who only wanted to pursue the heterosexual side of her sexuality like yourself. Or, a very understanding heterosexual woman, as you say, who wouldn't be afraid that one day you might change your mind and decide you would like to explore your sexual attraction to men further. Those factors alone, probably do limit you to a small section of the female population as potential mates.

To narrow your selection further, you add that the woman should be bi-friendly and a conservative, Christian, republican! I think that is somewhat of an oxymoron! I'm not saying that such a woman doesn't exist, but I am saying that it could be like finding a needle in a haystack! The majority of people who are not concerned about other's sexual orientation or issues are by and large quite liberal and definitely not conservative in outlook. So, I wonder that you exclude them. It makes me question whether you truly do want to find someone or only want an idealistic fantasy woman. Your comments about wanting to have a "feeling" of being in love also cause me to ask that question. "Feelings" come and go and the euphoria of being in love wears off in EVERY relationship or at least wanes considerably over time. That is very different from loving and accepting a person enough to accept all of whom they are including when they change.

You still give the appearance of being very confused about your own sexuality, what you want in a partner, your own feelings about what love is. I think that is what everyone who commented is sensing and why they keep recommending counseling for you. What a good counselor/therapist will do is to help you gain some clarity about who you are and what you really want in a partner. You don't "need" a girlfriend. You "need" to know thyself!

Cog

5

revenge

by stillajwexelder in

husband: when i get mad at you, you never fight back.

how do you control your anger?.

wife: i clean the toilet bowl.. husband: how does that help?.

cognizant dissident

One must be careful with revenge, it's sting can widen out to include all around. For instance, for all you toothbrush toilet cleaners out there, once your revenge has been satisfied and your anger at your mate dissipated, do you make love when he/she comes to bed? Do you put your tongue in their mouth when you make love? Does your mate brush their teeth before they come to bed and kiss you? Just some questions for your consideration.

Cog (of the "to hurt others is to ultimately hurt ourselves" class)

94

I need a girlfriend

by Junction-Guy in

jw
friends

after this past trip to ohio, i have become painfully more aware of how alone i am.

i miss having someone to share my life with.. .

im almost to the point of dating again, yet i have so many obstacles to overcome.. .

cognizant dissident

Let's see, we need to help JG find a Conservative, Christian Republican who is "almost gay" friendly. Is it just me or does any one else see a potential problem here?

JG, I feel for your loneliness, but your "ideal" woman's head would implode from the cognitive dissonance she would have to carry around to pull off that list of qualities you described!

You may just have to prioritize that list a little and decide what is MOST important to you.

cog

52

We'll All Be Dead Someday

by nvrgnbk in

jw
friends

and with that thought............everybody have a great weekend!.

.

cognizant dissident

oops. double post.